Why has it taken so long?
When state capture happened we never anticipated what we had to deal with. The state capture commission was an eye-opener for all of us.
Judge Zondo made it clear at least four years ago that our whistleblower legislation was totally inadequate, didn’t he?
Following that report you couldn’t just say Zondo said this is inadequate, and then you draft. You needed to benchmark because — as they’re all saying — this is a quite critical issue. So we had to look, for example, at what Canada is doing, what the UK is doing, what Uganda is doing.
So our whistleblower protection bill is international best practice?
International best practice. We also got the guys from the World Bank to look at the first draft.
Does the fact that it’s taken so long say anything about the government’s commitment to strengthen whistleblower protection?
No, not at all. If you look at what the SIU (Special Investigating Unit) does where they find that a whistleblower has to be protected, it’s not like there hasn’t been anything. What this bill does is it brings the legal framework, it brings a framework in terms of implementation.
How hard will implementation be when corruption is so endemic in our law enforcement agencies, the police, crime intelligence?
I think we shouldn’t be prophets of doom. The fact that government has come up with this mechanism shows the commitment we have. We’ve got a retired judge as part of ensuring that there’s oversight of the implementation.
Shouldn’t there be a dedicated, independent whistleblower ombud rather than a judge who reports to you?
The judge is not alone, he’s got a team that supports him. And he’s independent from government.
A judge who reports to the minister of justice?
No, he doesn’t report to me, he doesn’t report to the minister. The judge investigates if there is a breach, the judge makes a decision of implementation to that person. Even the president can’t instruct the judge who is overseeing that process.
Didn’t civil society recommend a dedicated, independent whistleblower ombud for this?
There’s no judge that can be influenced, that has to account to me. A retired judge can still be impeached. Actually, the issue of integrity lies with a retired judge more than just appointing an ombud that is coming from anywhere.
Do we have the institutional capacity to implement the provisions of this bill timeously?
We will have to build it across government, across civil society, across the private sector. In my department, for example, I must have a panel where whistleblowers can report, and a system that will ensure that where there’s a protected disclosure I handle it in time — and within 12 months an investigation is done.
How will these timelines be enforced?
Through a central data base where protected disclosures are lodged, which will be held by the director-general of the department.
How will the integrity of the data base be ensured?
We don’t see the name of the person who discloses, but we know the issue.
Why are public servants excluded from financial incentives to blow the whistle on corruption?
I’ve asked my team to check that for me.
Would you like to comment on this article?
Sign up (it's quick and free) or sign in now.
Please read our Comment Policy before commenting.