Are tighter regulations the answer to rein in a new era of podcast shock jocks who court controversy to get clicks?
Absolutely not, say some of South Africa's top podcasters, arguing that these platforms already have regulations.
But calls for tighter industry controls are growing, particularly after recent discriminatory remarks about coloured people on the Open Chats Podcast. The hosts have since apologised.
“The oligarchs and politicians just want to control the space because it holds power. There is no problem here. YouTube has rules, so there are regulations,” podcaster Ntsiki Mazwai told the Sunday Times.
“The problem is the rich, who want to gag people who expose them. The only reason we are even having this conversation is because we have a minister who wants to show his power.
“I support things like cancel culture, because they teach you how to act right. I think everyone has the right to create whatever content they want, and it’s important because we are all different. Podcasters, much like artists, are there to mirror society.”
Mazwai is no stranger to controversy. “Nobody likes the truth and nobody likes to be out of their comfort zone,” she said. “I force people out. I’m lucky the masses are still fond of me after all the bitter medicine I've served. I know I've been a handful. But I also know I’m part of shaping society. Part of awakening people. Part of making men and women have very difficult conversations.”
Podcasts have become an accessible, powerful medium for storytelling, entertainment and education, but they multiply daily, some of them amplifying misinformation and harmful speech.
Cue in Open Chats hosts Mthokozisi Methula and Sinothando Kama, who have gained 427,000 subscribers on YouTube after 330 videos since July 2020.
The deputy minister in the Presidency for youth & persons with disabilities, Mmapaseka Steve Letsike, has condemned the Open Chats Podcast incident, as have political parties including the ANC, DA, PA and EFF. An investigation is under way by the South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC).
But the godfather of controversial podcasting, MacGyver Mukwevho, known as MacG, said: “The boys were just practising freedom of speech, and we can't let that die. You’ve got to be responsible but the freedom of speech must be there.”
MacG achieved a million subscribers after five years and 400 uploads on his YouTube channel Podcast and Chill Network.
In 2021 the podcast was on the verge of being cancelled on social media and was dropped by three sponsors over harmful remarks about the LGBTQI+ community.
Recently MacG made unsavoury remarks about Minnie Dlamini, leading to a R2.5m lawsuit in the equality court.
The Real Housewives of Durban reality TV star Nonkanyiso “LaConco” Conco began podcasting five months ago and has won 32,000 subscribers. She was named Podcast Presenter of the Year at this year's Basadi in Music Awards. The award is based on votes.
“What inspired me to join podcasting is to tell my truth on my own platform, at my own pace and by my own production company,” she said. “The only thing I wanted ... is to tell my story. I never know how to be rude, I never know how to be nasty. It's an internal thing. I believe the balance comes naturally. I think before I speak.”
Rapper L-Tido has gained 170,000 YouTube subscribers with his L-Tido podcast.
“I was raised right, with a moral compass and integrity. So when I do my podcast, I'm mindful of the things I say just based on my upbringing,” he said. “I don't believe I have to be salacious or bring down a certain type of people for views. That's just not my agenda.
“Everyone who does a podcast should be mindful of the words they speak into the mic. It's the responsibility of the person doing the podcast.”
He does not believe podcasts should be regulated.
“It's your own platform on YouTube, it's not like a TV station that can tell you what to say and what not to say. When it comes to YouTube, you have to use your own discretion.”
The Sobering Podcast host Fratpacker, real name Kabelo Moremi, who has 24,600 subscribers on YouTube, said: “From a regulatory standpoint, it's not as stringent as TV and radio because it falls in the scope of new media. The book is still being written in terms of how to navigate the space. You do not want to regulate an art form like this too much because you may fall into the clutches of censorship.”
Podcasts aren't explicitly covered under existing broadcasting laws.
“The danger with podcasts or social media is that the violations are far-reaching and affect many people, as opposed to a violation that happens in person. We receive a huge amount of complaints from people across the country, ” said SAHRC provincial manager Zamantungwa Mbeki.
“Every right comes with a responsibility. Censorship is not what we seek, but we need to respect the rights of all. Social media [and] podcasts are a great platform for dialogue and engagement ... However, we must be aware of the legal framework in the country, especially a country with a history such as ours. When we have people who we found to have violated the right to equality, they undergo diversity and sensitivity training.”
In 2020 a draft white paper proposed amending section 192 of the constitution, replacing the word “broadcasting” with “audio and audiovisual content services”, placing podcasts under government regulation.
Verlie Oosthuizen, head of social media law at law firm Shepstone & Wylie, said: “The gap in relation to the regulation of podcasts has resulted in the unfettered publication and platforming of content that may be viewed as problematic, and in some instances individuals have taken action against podcasters and instituted proceedings in the courts.
“To a large extent, the regulation of podcasts would mean that they become part and parcel of traditional media, which is subject to regulation. Podcasters should ensure they are following the guidance set out before legislation forces them to and there are statutory penalties.”
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