Former president Jacob Zuma has laid out details of an audacious plan to “take back my ANC', by uniting “black” parties under his MK Party banner and recapturing the leadership of the party, which he said had “deviated from our ancestors”.
Zuma disclosed his ambitious ANC take-back plan in a wide-ranging interview with the Sunday Times at the Beverly Hills hotel in uMhlanga this week. Though there has been widespread speculation about Zuma’s intentions, the interview was the first time he gave public details of his plan to retake control of the ANC.
“We will take over from the ones who are selling out,” he said.
Listen to the full conversation here:
Crucial to his master plan is retaining his membership of the ANC, which was dealt a blow this week when the party’s national disciplinary committee (NDC) upheld a decision to rescind it.
But Zuma and those close to him indicated he would not take his expulsion “lying down” and would fight tooth and nail to have his membership reinstated so that he is an insider the day he takes over the ANC.
“If I was not a member of the organisation, it will be very difficult because they’re going to say ‘what do you want from our organisation?’ — and that will be the end of the debate.
“If I’m a member, they are not going to say ‘why are you coming to argue here?’ Because I’m going to say [that] ‘you actually deviated from what our ancestors said is mine and to take you out.”
Though the decision of the ANC’s NDC is considered final, the former president believes he has not exhausted all his options. This includes a possible application to the national executive committee for a review of his expulsion and a possible approach to the national conference — which has the right to “review, ratify, alter or rescind” decisions made by party structures.
On Saturday, Jacob Zuma Foundation spokesperson Mzwanele Manyi said Zuma will use all avenues available to get his membership back. Manyi said Zuma would meet his legal team and consult ANC structures — including his local branch, region and province — about his next step.
“He is not going to take this lying down because he believes the ANC of Ramaphosa is misguided. They have veered off the norms of the ANC. Even stalwarts of the ANC like Willies Mchunu have left and he said this ANC is a different animal. He has been a member for 65 years. He believes had they given him an opportunity to state his case properly [the outcome would be different], not on Zoom. He said: ‘Let’s hear this case in public’ — [and the ANC refused].”
However, ANC spokesperson Mahlengi Bhengu-Motsiri said Zuma has exhausted all avenues available in the ANC constitution. “The finding by the NDCA concludes the matter of Mr. Jacob Zuma. The chapter is now behind us,” she said.
Once we take over the country, we’re in charge. Right? One of the things we’ll do will be to honour our ancestors by putting back their ideas — and policies. We will take over from the ones who are selling out — [but if you’re not a member you can’t say ...] give us our ANC
— Jacob Zuma
Zuma, 82, was relaxed and talkative during the interview on Tuesday. He said his plan to take control of the ANC includes merging all “black” political parties, including the EFF, under the MK Party umbrella to remove the ANC from power. Once that had been concluded, he would “take over” the ANC from its current leaders.
Zuma said that is why — even though he is the leader of the MK Party — it is important for him to keep his ANC membership. When Zuma announced the formation of the MK Party in December, he said at the time that this was to rescue the ANC — which he said in the interview he could only do if he remained a member of the party.
“Once we take over the country, we’re in charge. Right? One of the things we’ll do will be to honour our ancestors by putting back their ideas — and policies. We will take over from the ones who are selling out — [but if you’re not a member you can’t say ...] give us our ANC,” he said.
“I want to remain there as a member, but I will never vote for them ... I am remaining there deliberately so that I will have an opportunity to take over that organisation even if it’s not the name.”
Zuma said ousting the ANC from power was possible if all the black political parties were united. But his ideal would be a merger that will see smaller parties joining the MK Party.
He confirmed meetings that took place before the May elections when leaders of opposition parties, including the EFF, discussed how to approach the elections. Since then, there has been tension between the two political parties after the departure of senior EFF leaders who have since joined Zuma’s party.
The list includes former EFF deputy president Floyd Shivambu and former national chair Dali Mpofu. There is a feeling within the EFF that the MK Party intends to weaken the red berets. EFF leader Julius Malema warned in a recent interview that if Zuma wanted to start a fight with him, he was ready.
But Zuma this week dismissed suggestions that the MK Party was poaching leaders of the EFF. “For comrades to move from other places, it is because we have been talking to say for us to liberate ourselves, let’s come together.
“You can’t have everybody [joining] at one day, it will be something like a miracle. Other comrades come. Nobody is taking somebody [to move] from somebody else. All this time, before MK was established, people were moving from other parties to join others. This very same organisation you’re talking about, moved from this [ANC] organisation.
Zuma said he is in favour of a proposal that the EFF folds and joins the MK Party. “Absolutely. If EFF comes to us, I’ll be very happy. Bring other parties as well — all of them.” He said he had raised the issue with EFF president Julius Malema, but details of that meeting were not for public consumption.
“When we were establishing MK Party — we met as black parties — including the one you are talking about [Malema] — and agreed [that] we are going to take over ... it’s something that happened. Whether you like it or not, we agreed. The president you’re talking about [Malema] agreed to that. We were together. We realised [that] us having small little black parties — it depleted the majority of black people ... that was discussed by many parties.”
Asked about his relationship with Malema given the tension between the two parties, he said: “You are asking as if we don’t know each other. I was leading the ANC when he was leading Cosas [Congress of South African Students]. We were with him. We worked with him. They were in the Youth League [and] I was president of the ANC. We worked very well.
“It’s not that we’re meeting today, we were together in that organisation that was established by our ancestors — believing in it fully.
“In politics at times things happen in many ways. He left the ANC. Once he leaves the ANC he has to take a position of a leader and an opposition ... I’ve known him. We have sat. We’ve [eaten] meat together. We did everything. I’d give an instruction to him. So there is nothing new here as to say ‘why now can you meet him?’ I meet him when I want to, because we’re not fighting.
“In politics people give their views. I exchange views with him in terms of the organisation that he established. But we were never enemies. We meet and talk ... very good. There is nothing ... No malice.
“He left my organisation and established his own. It keeps happening in life. It’s not a big deal. I’m telling you my brother, this guy you’re talking about is my friend, in fact. I love him. He is a kind man. He’s a very kind man. And he’s open. He talks his mind whether you like it or not. There is nothing between he and I that is wrong”.
Malema was expelled from the ANC in 2012 after numerous disciplinary hearings and due to his campaigning for Zuma to be removed from office ahead of the ANC’s 53rd national conference. He formed the EFF in July 2013.
• Additional reporting by Kgothatso Madisa
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