This was supposed to be a slam-dunk, wasn't it?
No case is a slam-dunk, but it wasn't the most complicated case in the world, that I'll concede.
What's your biggest concern about its collapse?
That there appears to have been a lack of proper preparation. That should concern every South African. State capture looms large in all our minds.
Corruption on a scale none of us can imagine has taken place and we're all the victims, every single day. Every time there's load-shedding, think of it.
This was supposed to be the case that laid the basis for the much bigger state capture cases to come with regards to the Guptas, so it had to be won.
How do you explain the basic procedural errors that were made?
I can't. There isn't a prosecutor in a specialist unit who doesn't know that you cannot just hand in documents without proving their authenticity. There are strict rules of evidence regarding documentation that all have to be complied with. All prosecutors know that, it's not rocket science.
Experts from the private sector have offered expertise pro bono. Any idea why the NPA hasn't accepted?
I'm not a fan of outsourcing prosecutions to advocates at the bar. Prosecutors are specialist criminal litigators. Where there is a prosecutor in the NPA who can deal with the matter they should deal with it, it shouldn't be outsourced.
They don't seem to have those prosecutors, do they?
There are people in the NPA perfectly capable of doing those cases, men and women, black and white, who I know, but they're not doing them and I don't know why.
Has Nulane torpedoed any chance of bringing the Guptas to trial in SA?
It's certainly made it a lot harder. You're going to have to convince a foreign jurisdiction in an extradition application that you actually have a case to prosecute — it will have to be a different one, but this one will be at the back of everybody's mind — and that you have somebody who can prosecute that case to its logical conclusion.
I would have prosecuted him for those and put his a*** in jail and then done the other complex investigations afterwards and prosecuted him again
And you reckon the NPA does?
They do, but those people are currently not being used for these cases. I can't tell you why.
Do you have doubts about the leadership of the NPA?
No. But [national director of public prosecutions] Shamila Batohi inherited an organisation that was deeply fraught. I think she was being undermined from within and has demonstrated an inability to deal with that.
Does that go to the heart of the matter?
It goes some way to explaining it.
What about Markus Jooste?
I can't begin to tell you how frustrated I am with the Steinhoff matter. I cannot imagine why it hasn't been in court long ago. It is complex and convoluted, and I get that. But there are one or two or three counts that are eminently winnable.
I would have prosecuted him for those and put his a*** in jail and then done the other complex investigations afterwards and prosecuted him again. Nothing stops you from doing that.
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