How did 96 undocumented children evade border surveillance?
Remember, we've only been 18 months on the job. The establishment of the BMA took about 20 years of discussions to the point where the BMA Act was signed by the president in 2020.
It was on the table for 20 years?
Yes, the process was delayed.
And we're now sitting with the consequences?
That's exactly my point. Over this period a lot of people entered the country illegally. We cannot indicate if those people entered before or after we took over. Some of them have been doing illegal mining for a long time
They're 15 or 16, so they must have come recently. Do you find that a bit concerning?
It is very concerning. That's why we have been calling for more capacitation.
Are you losing the fight against human trafficking and smuggling syndicates?
I wouldn't say we are losing the fight. The drug traffickers we keep intercepting at OR Tambo, for instance, working with the police, is a demonstration of the intensified work we are starting to do. It doesn't mean we are losing the fight.
Are you sufficiently resourced?
No, very far from that. As per our mandate and initial business case we're supposed to be 11,000-plus personnel on the ground, and we are only about 2,500. The answer we get is that the fiscus is constrained. Our business case was to cost the state R2.9bn, and they gave us R250m.
So shouldn't you be deploying what resources you have more strategically?
Definitely. We deploy our resources based on the intelligence we receive.
What's the quality of that intelligence?
The intelligence we get is not just within the BMA; we get intelligence from crime intelligence.
That's almost non-existent, isn't it?
We can say it was, but there's a lot of rebuilding that has been taking place.
So why are criminal syndicates flourishing like never before?
The problem from a border management point of view is that criminality is driven by illegal migrants who are already in the country.
Is it time to modernise our border surveillance?
Definitely, we must modernise.
Less militarisation, fewer boots on the ground, better use of technology?
Definitely. Deployment of sensors on the border line, deployment of drones to pick up illegal movements and reaction teams to react when technology alerts us. But those technologies are not cheap, so without the requisite financial muscle we can't procure them.
Time for more public-private partnerships?
We have said to private sector stakeholders that we are open to PPPs so they can help us to bring technology. The only thing delaying this is supply chain protocols. Partnerships have to be approved by the National Treasury, and there are complex processes that need to be followed. But we are told that the Treasury has started to relax some of those requirements so we can move faster in terms of PPPs.
If the future is more technology and less militarisation, why have you recruited another 400 border guards?
If technology picks up people crossing illegally you need human resources to react.
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