Trump has claimed that South Africa is confiscating the land of “a certain class”, presumably whites. Do you agree with him?
I can’t disagree with something he doesn’t say. He says there’s large-scale confiscation of land and certain classes of people are being treated badly. I think the certain classes of people that are being treated badly are the Afrikaans-speaking community, which is something different to whites.
Do you agree with his claim of large-scale confiscation?
There is a threat to property rights, but there is no large-scale confiscation.
Didn’t AfriForum say in 2018 — on Tucker Carlson’s Fox TV show — that Ramaphosa was seizing land without compensation from whites?
No. I was there and that was not said. We’ve never said there is a large-scale confiscation of land.
So where does Trump get this from?
Well, he’s got a state department, he’s got an embassy, and they see what stands in the Expropriation Act.
But the lie about land being confiscated doesn’t come from you?
No. What we've said consistently is that we are worried about threats to property rights.
Was Trump wrong to cut US aid to South Africa, when in fact no confiscations are happening or have happened?
What is happening at the moment is an Expropriation Act.
An Expropriation Act doesn't constitute a threat of confiscation, does it?
It definitely does. If you read the purpose of the act in the beginning, it says: To make expropriation possible. And Ronald Lamola, the then-minister of justice, said in 2022: “We failed to change the constitution, but we’re just going to use our majority to expropriate without compensation.”
They had a two-thirds majority for five years, but chose not to change the constitution, didn't they?
The balance of forces was against them.
What balance of forces? They had a two-thirds majority, didn't they?
So why do they say they’re going to do it, and why do they draw up an act that allows them to do it?
Isn’t expropriation in the public interest a necessary function of any government?
Yes, we've always made it clear expropriation is a normal law you have in every society. What is not normal is to have an act that says nil compensation. The only places where you have something like that is in Zimbabwe and Venezuela. We said to the president, here is an act that is going to scare investors, please don’t sign it. He went ahead and now people are blaming us.
AgriSA says it’s the “debacle” over the act caused by the lies about confiscation that has scared investors and hurt farmers?
Of course that has hurt, but if there’s a debacle you must blame the president, who gave his signature to the act.
Do you deny all responsibility for Trump’s lie that land is being confiscated?
Yes, most definitely.
So why haven’t you called him out on it?
People want to say this is not true what Trump is saying, so there’s no problem. We are saying the real problem is there — and that’s the threat to property rights.
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